Let me begin by saying although the engine is not yet fully assembled, there has been a great deal of work performed on this build well prior to my joining this forum. Please excuse the posts if something seems a bit askew... some of the posts answer question previously asked in other forums.....
Oh... I do cylinder head porting for a living
Grunt is my 1989 All-Trac DX sedan
I purchased Grunt last year(Mar 2010), and shortly after I got her I realized she had an "occasional" engine knock(believe it to be a broken ring land). So the engine knock, got me thinking towards a significant engine upgrade, yet I didn't want to change any of the electrics on the car. That consideration left me with using a 4AFE engine of some kind........ so I decided on a super duty built 4AFE... add a bit of compression, some head porting to improve flow, and a bottom end that is, to borrow a phrase...., strong as OX
Before I go on too much further, I should say I've had 2 All-Trac Corollas, the first one was a wagon, it rusted to oblivion in the late 1990s, prior to that I owned an Tercel 4wd(chassis code AL25). Besides my current All-Trac, I also own a VERY tweaked 175hp AE71 coupe called Surreptitious and my wife owns an AE86 GT-S as her daily.
The first part of this thread will be similar to other OST porting threads, but when the head gets finished, the thread will proceed with the rest of the build.
I went and got myself what appears to be a 2nd generation* 4AF head from a 1991 Celica ST so that I could build Grunt's replacement engine (Grunt's lump). The reason I sourced a 1990+ head was the manifold....
Here are the 2 heads w manifolds
Can you see the manifold on the right is not as convoluted (oddly shaped) as the manifold on the left?
Here are better photos showing what I'm trying to describe
Now why all that effort for a stock manifold??? Simple really I'm looking for some low end grunt for Grunt.
Note the solid line represents the new manifold - more torque EARLIER... as well as a touch more top end hp
Speaking about this build.... where are the math experts out there? I need a compression equation calculated.
bore and stroke remain the same (81 bore and 77 stroke). Combustion chamber volume changes from 36.25cc down to 30.25cc. If using a piston with a compression ratio of 8.9 to 1 when installed under a 36.25cc head, what is that same pistons compression while under a 30.25cc head?????
A basic junkyard head....
I'll begin disassembly in the next day or 2....
What I can tell you from what I've already inspected - Bill Sherwood told me a looong time ago that the F head can be built to pump out some power, but as with the G heads, the "F" heads have some issues that need to be addressed.
The most significant of these issues are the HORRID exhaust ports - pure crap. They are soooo bad, I'll need more time to get photos I can post
One interesting thing(not sure if it is good or not) the EGR routing is all internally done inside the head... Look at the odd port, and the one on the manifold.... that odd port(tiny round) appears to be a passage through the head to the #4 exhaust port (I'll get a pic later)
Well disassembly offers discovery :tard:
The biggest discovery was why did Toyota screw up the exhaust side of the 4AF head. When Toyota designed this head, they change #1 and #4 exhaust ports by moving them approximately 10mm closer to the inboard ports
What this does is cause some interference in the #1 exhaust port because of the front oil drain.
The photo above shows 2 exhaust ports - left one is #1, right one is #4, but mirror image. The port on the left has a large obstruction on the right hand port wall, that is absent from the mirror image #4 port, and this will be my biggest challenge to overcome.
One other oddity... since the combustion chambers are located in the same place, the 4AF has the front and rear ports flow out of the head @ a shallow angle, instead of straight out of the head like a G head does. Here is a representation of the flow out of the F head - note the 2 ends flow @ a small angle
Besides the problem of working around the oil drain, the ports themselves are downright economical (brrrrrrrrrr) The top shows 4AF ports before... the lower photo shows 4AG ports before. both bad... but the G head is far better......
Ports not to scale.... 4AF ports are same size as 4AG ports at the head exit... but deep back inside the difference is astounding
Now for some good news, and another discovery.........
F valves are almost 8mm shorter, the intakes are 1/2mm less overall diameter(30mm instead of 30.5), while the exhaust valves are 1mm smaller diameter(24.5mm instead of 25.5) These facts are interesting because a cut down 4AG valve will allow me an O/S valve option for my 4AF head :eek:
More good news... those intake ports are neat, and well cast :eek::eek:
They will need typical bowl work, but the ports themselves are well cast without any obvious mismating flaws
the bowls do need some work, but nothing extreme will be needed.
Quoted from oldeskewltoy;275239
Speaking about this build.... where are the math experts out there? I need a compression equation calculated.
bore and stroke remain the same (81 bore and 77 stroke). Combustion chamber volume changes from 36.25cc down to 30.25cc. If using a piston with a compression ratio of 8.9 to 1 when installed under a 36.25cc head, what is that same pistons compression while under a 30.25cc head?????
How about 10.1 to 1
Well, the head is over @ Loynings getting cleaned. I spoke with Mike and there isn't a great deal readily/easily/inexpensively to do to improve exhaust port #1 without time on the flow bench................
Soooooo, I'm buying a flowbench.......
Or rather I'm buying the main componenets, and building a flowbench :eek: :eek:
So OST Porting will have a fully operational flowbench by mid January...
Other news on the head... the 45 degree seat of the valve seats is very tight to the overall size of the seat, so if I wanted to run an O/S valve, even a cut down 4AG, it would need new seats...
I think as of now the intake valves will get a nice back cut, the intake ports on the head will get a slight tapered shape - to avoid any chance of the port edge being in the air stream. I'll smooth out the ports like I always do, and once the flowbench arrives, I'll try to figure a way to improve the exhaust airflow
Top panel shows the head after cleaning....
it also shows one chamber having already been modified, can you find the modified chamber and the changes???
Quoted from oldeskewltoy
can you find... ...the changes???
red points out areas around the circumference of the chamber that have been "softened", the green dots are showing irregularities in the chamber that were blended
btw... this is chambers 3 and 4, the chamber with the notes is showing before blending... look carefully and you can see the changes
doing a little work on the intake side... thinning the splitter @ the port roof(NOT thinning it on the floor). Carefully removing the casting flash, doing a bit of re-contouring around the guides....
that, and massaging the bowls and seats is all I plan to do on the intake side of this head
top panel shows one chamber finished, bottom panel shows all chambers finished... all the chamber edges have been blended into the surrounding chamber - those on the chamber walls, as well as the machining marks left over
Note the intake bowls are all ready, exhaust bowls, and ports to come
The below photo shows the original obstruction each intake splitter posed, and how I narrowed the splitter to allow for more air
The intake side of this head is now finished, I've beveled the port @ the head to make sure there is nothing in the airstream coming from the manifold. I've had to "adjust" one of the intake ports on the gasket(about 1mm) to make sure the gaskets edge isn't in the air stream as well.
well, now that the flowbench is just about ready, I felt it was time to set the standard.... so to speak.
The above is my attempt to allow a bit more flow to compensate for an awkward corner. I've removed quite a bit of material, and smoothed the port walls on the valve side(blind side/important side)so that the amount of the intrusion of the oil return is minimized. I've also tailored the splitter some as well
This might make it a bit clearer as to why I've spent so much time "opening up" exhaust port #1, even to the extent of changing its shape. On the left is port #1, on the right is port #4.... note how much of port#1 is being intruded on.
To put it on the flow bench, I'm in need of valves with a good seal. In the next few days, I'll be cleaning the valves, and lapping them in. Once lapped in, I plan on getting them back cut. A friend almost has his lathe up and running, this will make back cutting them easier(cheaper)
Sorry about the shitty photo, but it is shitty for a reason... to draw your attention to the changed shape of the valve. Note the edge on the lower of the 2 shows a sleeker valve, one with a backcut all the way down to the edge of contact between the valve and seat.
I'm currently working on actuating the valves while on the flowbench. I had a friend make me an actuator for the G head, but alas, the G head and F head use different sized cam journals
tool for 16V G head
the problem is that tool will not fit in the "F" cam journal since the F journal is smaller.........
Here is my first idea.... the toggle clamp is fastened to the neighboring journal - this should allow enough clearence for operation
This one doesn't quite have enough reach to it, but I believe I can find* a toggle clamp to accomplish the job......
* - by "find", i mean I'll look, but since this is a cheap crappy Harbor freight tool, I may just modify this one to work as I need it - by taking 2 of these clamps, and extending the arm part of the clamp by about 1 inch, and then moving the entire clamp to be better situated over the neighboring journal
Here is the "new and improved" version - I had a friend weld an extension on to the clamp end so that I can better position the clamp on the neighboring cam journal
The extra size makes it able to be adapted for when I do an 2RZ head later this year :eek:
Well... Jesse and I were finally able to get his lathe up and running, and so Grunt finally got her back cut valves
Taken by phone camera... on the lathe. The valve on the right has gotten a back cut, the valve on the left is without a back cut.
A bit clearer when I have a better camera
I'm amazed at just how crappy the 4AFE is... I've shown back cut 4AGE valves before... and they are pretty uniform in shape, well the same can not be said for 4AF valves.
Exihibit A
Above are 2 exhaust valves from the 2nd generation head (newer then Grunt's head that is still on Grunt) 1st, the obvious... look @ how crappy the valve on the right is shaped... that is NOT an unequal back cut, THAT is a crappy a** valve! Note the initial lapping bead IS uniform around the valve.... and the back cuts uniform contact with the lapped part of the valve... it is just the horrendous shape of the valve that has caused that irregular a back cut.
Now that the valves are ready.... #1 cylinder(exhaust side) is set for testing :eek::eek:
the intake valve showing the back cut
and an exhaust valve with the back cut....
the exhaust valve needs a bit more time with a fine lapping compound
Bah! I'm getting impatient. I want to see numbers from that flow bench on Grunt's head.
patience
below is a unique 2 panel photo of the problem exhaust port(#1) inside the 4AFE head... AFTER it has been ported. Now you have seen the right hand side before, that is the area that has the oil drain that interferes with the port. What you haven't seen before is the #1 exhaust valve port(left side of photo) EXTENSIVE work was performed on this port, the roof, and wall were substantially changed
Below is the #4 exhaust port. You can see FAR less work here... but the reasoning is we are attempting to equalize these two ports. Take special notice of the left split in the photo below - THAT is how the buggered port above would have looked *IF* Toyota had chosen a better oil return path then the one they did choose
To compensate for the lack of oil drain on this port, just a bare minimum has been done in this port. You can see extensive roof work, but little else was done on the port walls to TRY to compensate for the crappy #1 port.......
Port#4(no Problem except to leave it mostly alone) .050"=27.8cfm, .100"=54.8cfm, .200"=90.3cfm
They appear VERY close... Now... a bit of averaging... add up what you have... multiply it times 2(after all the valve is @ these points twice in each cycle), now divide by 6 to get an average.........
57.633cc average for port #1 57.633cc average for port #4
"F" YAH :
For those who might be scratching their heads... the photo below shows port #4, (on top), and reversed to match port #1 (on bottom)
With the head now only needing a very thorough cleaning before final reassembly, I can now move on to Phase 2 of Grunt's lump........
Getting the block prepared to accept all the new parts.
How do you take the crank pulley bolt off when there is no flywheel, or even rods....... easy you place a socket on the oil feed rail(opposite the oil filter housing), and rotate the crank untill it rests on the socket, and then have at it....
Once the pulley bolt is loose, a small puller is used to pull the crank pulley from the crankshaft
Another secret here... look inside where the crank pulley bolt had been... residing in there now is a valve shim... its a perfect fit and and the crank pulley slips off
With the crank pulley off, the rest of the engine gets stripped(oil pump and rear seal housing), along with the removal of the oil filter housing. This block is now ready for Loynings = Loynings Engine Service - well known racing engine builder, has vast exp with the Toyota "A" series engines...
The US standard exhaust manifold is a lousy P.O.SHIRT
The ONLY thing good is the #1 runner is directed to allow decent flow.... and that is where the "good" ends. Having #2 flow into #1, and #3 and #4 flowing together is not conducive to optimizeing flow... its for optimizing fitment in a small space. :thumbsdown:
So... I've done a search for headers and there isn't much available... Pacesetter... and a few companies from down under....
Pacesetter -
"Wildcat" headers from ebay.au (down under)
[SIZE="4"]NOT much of a choice....[/SIZE]
until :eek:
Quoted from from aussie forum
the ae112 7afes came out with extractor style headers, made from mandrel stainless instead of the cast steel
:eek: :eek: :eek: WHAT???? We never got the 110 bodied Corolla with any of the "A" engines. The last "A" engine in a US Corolla was 1997.... and whats this about mandrel bent extractor style headers???
I do some serious snooping over @ a toyota parts site and low and behold what do I find in Europe, and Japan...
1997-99 AE111 (NOT a 20V car, but a 4AFE powered - "1997-99 TOYOTA COROLLA (AE111L-AEMDKW) TERRA EUR SED LHD 4AFE MTM 5F"
Here is what that manifold looks like 17141
manual transmission only...
edited - I'm trying to purchase this..... strike that.... now purchased, waiting for shipment
Well, the pistons have been sized and the clearences will be about .005" to .006". Not as tight as stock(cast piston), but adding the slip coating to the skirts will get the clearence to narrow up to .004" to .005". Interestingly enough, the 8.9 to 1 Z slugs are larger diameter then the 8.0 to 1 Z slugs - by .001", or .002" Typical 8.0 slugs measure 3.1839"-3.1850"(1988 BGB) The 8.9 slugs I have measure 3.1860 to 3.1862, so even though the 20V block need a thorough honing, std bore pistons will be kept :thumbsup:
The next step is a decision on the rods, and or rods and crank. The crank that came with the donar block is suitable. 1) Since the donor was a silvertop, the rods are the 3rd gen rod. 2) I also have a set of the MASSIVE 2nd gen rods. 3) And finally, I have a smaller 40/18 crank that has a set of rods that already have been "opened" to accept 20mm pins
This engine will NEVER see 7000, and likely never even see 6500. The cams are stock, the management is stock. The only changes will be a ported head, and 1/2 point higher compression.
Quoted from oldeskewltoy;291005
Well, the pistons have been sized
Not as tight as stock(cast piston),
the 8.9 to 1 Z slugs
What? "Z" slugs? 4AGZE pistons.
I'm sure I've confused some readers.... why is he using 4AGZE pistons?? :confused:
Is it getting boosted.... No... (well maybe, at some time in the future, but that is another time/build)
The reason I'm using 8.9 to 1 cr 4AGZE pistons is simple. Their volume of 4AGZE pistons and the volume of the original 4AF piston are VERY close, with the 4AGZE slugs adding 1/2 point to the static compression ratio.
That means I can use stouter/stronger internals, and get a mild boost in the compression ratio. The 4AGZE pistons are forged(strong), and do not suffer from ring land failure.
edited.... a photo I found online showing the changes Toyota did beginning in 1993.
Note the "new" shape of the 4AFE piston.... looks VERY much like the 4AGZE piston
Quoted from oldeskewltoy;291075
Got word from Craig @ Loynings that they will need to deck the block some.... when they mounted the torque plate.... it didn't want to fully seal (remember Loynings does hone/bore @ engine running temp)
I'll need to know how much the new deck height will be... so I can re-calculate the static compression ratio. Cutting the deck, or narrowing the gasket are the 2 fastest ways to gain compression. *IF* static is goes over 10.25, I may need to look into a mild cam... maybe like a redtop grind. The duration of 4AF cams are reported to be 188 degree, the duration of the redtop cams is 198 degree. The 10 degrees more duration will lower the measured compression
cut .003", so that will make the deck height .027" which will raise compression to 10.1 to 1, or a 6/10s bump from stock for all the mods, from 9.5 to 10.1. She may be borderline as to ping(and I'm likely just worrying about nothing)... but the adjustable timing gear should allow me some capability to lower DCR if she does ping.
Oh, the outside of the block has been machined to fit the All-Trac transaxle assembly. The pistons have been coated, and the crank should get micro polished later this week. I should be able to pick up all the pieces by next week. I'll try to get a few pics in the next day or so
not so shiney part... look @ all the flaws on the inside WHERE YOU DON'T WANT FLAWS.
So lets see.... beginning with the overall assembly... it was a lazy person setting this up, all the pipes miss being centered on the flange - some of this you can plainly see (bottom of "35mm" center pipe, left-bottom of the other center pipe, far right of right side outer pipe, the far left pipe(#4) is the least mismatched.
The "35mm" is the diameter of the pipe flange, the head is 25mm :eek::eek: That is WAAAY to much of a jump and the exhaust gasses will really slow down, so I was thinking
if it is possible to make this into a stepped header by running 35mm OD pipe INTO the current header??? Welding the insert pipes with a spot welder At the pipes end, and @ the flange????
Take 3" long pieces and fitting them inside the regular pipe - the only real difficulty would be the #1 pipe because it bends at the flange, BUT if I get the bend right, I might just be able to fit it
Another concern I have is what appears to be a slanted flange where the next pipe mounts... When I dismantle Grunt to put the new engine in, I'll test fit the header and pipe and see if all will work.
The 7AFE header I purchased cost me $68 shipped :eek: pretty cheap.... and after I bought it... someone from Ireland sent me this photo.....
Above is the factory 4AFE tube header and downpipe from the 1997+ model! I'm in discussion right now as to how much this will cost me to get it here. *IF* I can get it here, I'll turn around and try to sell the shiney chrome one
Well, I picked up the engine parts from Loynings....
As you can see, nice new looking parts! The gray coating on the piston skirts is to reduce friction. Also note the squirters are plugged.
Here is the area of the outside of the block that got machined to accept the All-Trac transaxle, the bottom of the 2 panel was before, the top is after
There ARE a few flaws in this shortblock... nothing that can't be used in this application, but flaws none the less. :eek:
One such flaw, is a water mark left over in one of the cylinders, but that is minor compared to the water mark left in the #2 main journal.... yes, main journal! :eek: :eek: :eek:
Loynings checked the crank very carefully... they noted there was nothing raised, and after the micro polishing they told me to assemble it with the same bearings that came out of it! (new replacements of course)
The bearings... I'm going with Toyota OEM.... but otherwise this is somewhat of a budget build, so I'm using Rockauto for the entire engine overhaul kit - gaskets and seals(cost was $120, instead of $250) AND I'm using Rockauto chrome piston rings (cost was $55, instead of $135). I'm also going to check the original oil pump clearences and if within tolerances - likely use it!
Well.... Bryan got back to me..... I asked him to get me a measurement of the primaries....
edit - Bryan = the person in Ireland who has the OEM tube header shown above
29-30mm
that is a PERFECT size for 25mm ports coming out of the head.......
The stock unit is FAR superior to the aftermarket one - figures now it looks like I'll have to open my wallet and pry a few bills loose, or if you prefer a different comparison, bend over and smile.
Well, alltracwagons.net is now caught up. As I assemble the engine, I'll continue to post more.
Hey OST (IT's PCW from toymods can't change my name to JedzWagn there) - thanks for joining I'm sure all the guys at alltracwagon are gonna enjoy your detailed posts.
Have you ever considered getting an adjustable cam wheel made up for grunt's 4afe? - just one more thing you might be able to massage some extra power out of...
Corolla 4wd??? Does such a thing even exist???![color=green][/color]