Hey OST,

I've stripped down my 1.8L block - no signs of wear & tear. Everything's beautiful & well oiled. (Thankfully)

I'm ready to fit forged rods, however the manufacturer of the forged rods advises to check that all the internal diameters of the con-rods match the crank.

Not sure if I should do this myself or take to an engine builder...

What's the best measurement tool to use for these kinds of tolerances? Micrometer?

Cheers

Quoted from JedzWagn

Hey OST,

I've stripped down my 1.8L block - no signs of wear & tear. Everything's beautiful & well oiled. (Thankfully)

I'm ready to fit forged rods, however the manufacturer of the forged rods advises to check that all the internal diameters of the con-rods match the crank.

Not sure if I should do this myself or take to an engine builder...

What's the best measurement tool to use for these kinds of tolerances? Micrometer?

Cheers

or a decent caliber





again apologies for being absent......


There are a few different heads, but in essence there is a low port type(87-92) and a couple of high port types(93+).

There is at least 2 designs of intakes for the low port head, there is the AE95 type, 88-89, and then there is the 90-92 type.  the 90-92 is a shorter runner intake manifold.  I can't swear that the heads are the same and so the intakes should swap... but I BELIEVE all pre 93 heads can use ANY pre 93 intake - short or long runner.



The header I purchased from Ireland....


I CAN'T use the header yet... this is because the All-Trac downpipe is curved so that it can clear the E55/E57 All-Trac gearbox, the header downpipe is designed to fit the fwd model, and as you see runs straight back.  Before I can use the header, I'll need to rebuild the downpipe to follow the curve needed.   Because of this, I'm STILL running the crappy log type manifold.

Now that the engine has been in for the better part of 1000 miles I decided to go to the dyno  





Hmmmmm, seem disappointed with those numbers... but NOT disappointed with the torque "curve"... or should I say torque flat.    The torque peaks @ 2700 now, instead of 4800.  The torque is very linear and supplies 90% or more of the torque from 2000, to 5550 rpm.


Now for the numbers....  I am disappointed.  David Huang who runs Forged Performance (tuner shop with the dyno) said that it has been his expereince that EVOs usually have a drivetrain loss between 28% and 31%  .   That seemed awful high to me until I did some research....  

The whole drivetrain loss subject is VERY interesting.  It appears different AWD drivetrains have different losses.  The Subaru drivetrains tend to lose about 20%-25%, EVOs tend to lose 25%-30%   All-Trac Celicas are often at, or close to 30%..........  

BUT.........  There is also arguments that MOST systems don't lose a set percentage, but they lose a set number (the Subaru guys say 60hp), and then as power increases, there is a small additional amount of power lost do to the additional power causing SOME additional loss but not a set percentage for the entire loss.

So what do I use to back calculate the All-Trac in the Corolla???   I couldn't tell you, because I find NOTHING related to the All-Trac Corolla drivetrain.  Now the All-Trac drivetrain is similar to the Celica system - both use E series transaxles, the big difference is the Corolla uses a solid axle in the back, while the Celica uses an independent rear.  So if I use 30% drivetrain loss, then my flywheel hp # would be @ 102hp, and torque would be a grunt-like 110#/ft

MY opinion:   I'm in the BUT catagory of believers.  I believe there is a set drivetrain loss, and then as power is added (with mods) the loss increases but at a small percentage rate then the initial loss.   So what is the E series All-Trac drivetrain loss?  Your guess is as good as mine


One VERY interesting note... Grunt's first pull was HORRIBLE... netting a paultry 58hp, and 60#/ft.   I was feeling quite embarrassed... but they took a look @ how she was on the dyno** and noticed that the tires were quite deflected (under inflated by about 6-8#s)  The brought the tire pressures up and the result is the reading above


Here is what I can tell you..... The final torque # is ABOVE the final hp # (72hp to 77.5#/ft).  This is substantially different from the stock engine where there was more HP, then torque.  Also the new engine is far stronger then the engine that came out... I can only guess @ what that engine would have planted

Hmmmm, good reading here - http://www.modified.com/tech/modp-1005-drivetrain-power-loss/index.html


** - see next post for more details....

Some perspective..........
http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/previous-nsw-events/27-***-dyno-day-history-lesson-***.html

do a page search for 4a-fe, and 4afe.  the three listings show 2wd versions.  Those engines planted 61.4hp (45.8kw), 65.1hp (48.5kw), and last 69hp(51.5kw).  That makes my 71 hp more ... and in 4wd, it looks pretty good.  

While searching I did find a few other 4AFE dyno results, but the only one I found running mostly stock planted 77hp, and 80 #/ft, but again that is in 2wd and not using a Mustang dyno, but a dynojet




Here is a stock 7AFE... on a Mustang dyno, but again it is 2wd

Quoted from from the proverbial other forum

but you did dyno in 4wd?

I'd be curious to see what it would dyno at in 2wd mode (for those that don't know the corolla alltracs have electronic selectable 4wd)...... because I believe the alltrac ae92/5's have 60/40 or 70/30 (I can't remember) with the latter number the figure to the rear.... so if you dyno'd at 71.7whp in 4wd mode..... how does the dyno calculate the variance in power between the front and rear?

Is that figure just the wheels with the highest power?  A comination between the two (which would skew the figures down)? or....?

I know that it is possible to make the Celica all-trac drive in just fwd... or I believe I read that.   The All-Trac system in Grunt doesn't allow just 2wd, it is full time awd, and you can lock up the center diff.  The runs were done with the center diff unlocked, but the system was driving all of the drums, one in the rear, and the 2 in the front.  

The Mustang dyno is such that you set the rear drive wheels on the top of the rear roller, and then ideally it is set to length to run the front tires in the "V" between the 2 front rollers.   Grunt is shorter then their unit was set to, so the rear tires were on the rear roller, but the front tires were not fully in the "V", but were propped against the rearward of the two front rollers.

But getting back to your post... these pulls(4 total - the one with low tire pressures, and 3 others) were all done in 4wd, so comparing my numbers to any other 4AFE powered AE9x would pretty much require their pulls to be on a Mustang dyno, and in an AE95 to even know how well she actually did.   OR to know the drag/power loss the E55/E57 all-trac gearbox is when fitted to an AE95


Btw.... all these numbers are @ the wheels... the only "flywheel" numbers are in the 1st post and those are loosely based on a 30% drivetrain loss.  I had hoped to find a few dyno runs in this forum, but when I checked I found no other 4AFE, E55/E57 equipped runs to compare them too.

Well........ Grunt took her first trip since getting her new lump(but before the dyno).   Joanne (my wife) and I went down to Bend Oregon(162 miles one way).  


We took the route 26 pass over(alongside) Mt Hood, and then proceeded through the high desert decent just north of Warm Springs.   On both journeys (out and back) Grunt performed well......  
  VERY well!!!

going up the mountain, and travelling down into, and then out of the high desert river valley Grunt was able to keep mostly in 4th or 5th gear... Passing was easy....  going up hill or down she pulled like a mule.  

Not only did she pull like a mule, but she drank like a petite lady... averaging a tick over 26 mpg... or 198 miles covered(162 hard, hilly highway, and 36 city) while just using 7.6 gallons of regular fuel!!!  Not bad considering the time spent going up hills and maintaining 80 mph in most of the level roads between Mt Hood and Redmond AND that she is 4wd!!!

OST, a very interesting post.  I have always wondered why I don't get much power unless I have high revs.  
I am considering (sometime in the far future when I get the time and space) making some of the modifications that you did to your 4AFE to shift the torque earlier, but it will be a learning curve since I have no experience with engine tuning, head porting, etc.  But that's where the fun comes in  . . .

Thanks for sharing all the results... I'm curious how much difference the exhaust manifold will make when you get that sorted.  Will you go with larger diameter than stock for the exhaust piping?

Hi OST,

Just to be clear on this build.
Which block and crank did you use? I noticed you mention machining the block to clear the transaxle, which leads me to think it's not the original block?? I was thinking it was a 20v but the dyno sheet also lists it as a 1.8L engine?!?
Please clarify.


I have 3 engine builds in mind for each of my wagons due to a build up of parts from changing my mind on the ultimate build over the last 18months or so..
The 3rd build runs along similar lines to your build thread... So I have a few questions regarding that particular build.

For anyone else reading..
The builds are as follows:
1) Currently building my ultimate AE95 ride with all the options like steel sun roof with tinted wind deflector, monsoon deflectors for the driver and passenger windows, power steering, power windows to be swapped in, alloy bullbar, roof rak, tow bar, fog lights, roof mount headlight rack, oversized rims and tyres with suspension raise etc. etc. Designed for camping fishing snowboard trips. ..maybe even towing a small camping trailer. So she's gonna be a pretty heavy beast.
For this reason I'm building a 7AGZE to move all that weight. The 7A block already has a notch for the transaxle in the block and oil pan, not sure if it's enough to clear 'as is' or of it'll still need some machining (GRINDING! )
For extra grunt and keeping with toyota's over-engineering ethic I'm using:
7A block that's had oil squirters machined in
7A crank and flywheel that's had 3 hardened steel dowels machined in (to resist shearing the 6 flywhel bolts)
sc14 supercharger with sc12 pulley
3SGTE throttle body
Yet to purchase a custom plenum
home made resin 'intake to head' adapter plate
New 430cc injectors
forged h-beam 7A rods
OEM forged 8.9:1 GZE pistons
bigport GZE head
NA bigport cams
Heavy duty clutch
Cusco 2way rear Limited Slip Diff
Will get custom headers and exhaust made up
haven't figured intercooler & piping yet
All managed by OEM ECU, HKS 4AGZE piggy back and HKS Graphics Control Computer


2) Build 2 will be a 4agze left overs build. lowered for daily street use. The left over parts list follows:
Mostly 4agze small port engine & loom MINUS 8.9:1 pistons
Instead I'll be using the left over 8.0:1 pistons from the bigport.
NA bigport cams
Also driven by a sc14 using full over/under drive pulley kit
will use cheapo chinese intercooler & piping
Using common aftermarket header

3) 1989 4AFE spruce it up, mildly supercharge it and give it to my mum. Here's the idea...
I have a sc12 supercharger
4agze factory topmount intercooler
I was really interested to see you use a pre 1993 short intake runner. If I CAN'T find one over here, would you be able to source one and post it over?
Port the head as you have done in this thread..
gze rods DO YOU KNOW IF CAN THEY BE USED with 4afe crank??
..some GZE or 2nd gen AFE pistons... or else just use the originals
5SFE injectors. They have a higher cc per minute rating than 4afe injectors but run on the same amount of ohms http://autospeed.com/cms/title_Injector-Flows/A_0102/article.html
7AFE head gasket.
Home hardware style cold air intake and heat shielding from the engine/radiator
Home made adjustable cam gear ^^^as you showed in this thread already^^^

QUESTION:, Do you think 7AFE or later model 4AFE cams would fit straight into 1st gen 4afe head?
Based on the specs below there could be some advantages.

4AFE

1st GEN
Overlap: 9.00 degrees
Intake Duration: 220.00 degrees
Exhaust Duration: 220.00 degrees
Intake Installed Centerline of 104.00 degrees ATDC.
Exhaust Installed Centerline of 107.00 degrees BTDC.
6.6MM lift in/ex
30mm int diameter 24.5mm ex dia
the amount of ²cm  of air coming in through the intake valve is 12.440696 ²cm

2nd GEN
Overlap: 8.00 degrees
Intake Duration: 224.00 degrees
Exhaust Duration: 224.00 degrees
Intake Installed Centerline of 106.00 degrees ATDC.
Exhaust Installed Centerline of 110.00 degrees BTDC.
7.6MM lift in/ex
the amount of ²cm  of air coming in through the intake valve is 14.803172 ²cm

(can't find any specs on 7afe OEM cams)

I'm thinking, if they can drop straight in, there's a few options.
1) completely swap in both intake and exhaust 4afe2ndGen (or 7afe cams
2) just swap in the 2nd gen intake & leave the 1st gen exhaust
3) just swap in the 2nd gen exhaust & leave the 1st gen intake.

Not sure what the resulting outcome of each of these 3 options might be..
Care to take a stab?
You understand cam spec's and operation better than me.

OST, Did you end up doing the intake manifold?
I'm going to a pick and pull this week to get a couple.
Also, the headers from Ireland look like the same ones I saw on a early 90's fwd GT-S last weekend. I may be pulling that whole engine and try some things out.