Hi Guys,

Has anyone ever tried getting some extra height out of their All-Trac?

I've been searching online for various lift kits & companies that might do them here in Melbourne Australia. I've heard a few owners utter the same thoughts on the odd occasion but I haven't actually found anyone who's done it yet?

I know plenty of people do it on various subaru models old & new.

So with the All-Trac's capabilities I believe it's reasonable to beef up the suspension & ground clearance a little bit.
If you have any thoughts or know anyone who's already done this I'd be very interested to know.

Thanks. ;)

I've never come across any lift kits for these, nor for the AE92s. The only way that I know of to improve ground
clearance is to:

Larger tires and wheels.  These cars came with 13" rims.  If one moves up to 14" rims, then there is a greater variety of tires from which to choose.  If you choose a tire with larger diameter, then your car sits higher, provided the tire has enough air inside.

Maybe one of the other sites has info on lifting a Corolla.  I wish I could raise mine a few inches, then I could get
under it without using jackstands (say, in an emergency on the road).

I am in the process of doing this.  My plans are:

Front Gen 1 Magna Springs
Rear EL Falcon Springs
14" Wheels

Should add up to 50-60mm of lift without changing the shocks.  Any more then that and it will start getting expensive pretty quick, I don't have the money at the moment, saving up for a new engine for the subi.  I will take before and after shots as well as measurements as I go.  The Magna springs should be here Monday.

Thanks akpv - sorry I beat you to those performance exhaust....(yet to fit)

Really interested to hear how you go. Hey I remember reading some where that NSW government passes a law - you can only lift or lower your vehicle 2inches from OEM factory standard...

datsa - Yep absolutely hear you all the way on 'upping' the wheel size. Only problem is... Like most guys "I want more" ...lift that is..

My idea is to to both: Lift the suspension & increase wheel & tyre size

Yeah, not sure what the update is on the new law but it is crazy talk.  Either way I am in ACT ;).

I am going to put some rally tires on for off road 4wd type stuff.

Picked up another rolla yesterday as a temporary car for a friend.  It was an auto, has much nicer seats, central locking etc but i don't think it is quite the same as the SR5.  $400 with 5 months rego, not bad at all.  Will probably part it out when rego expires. Some keywords for the search engines, we need more members! ae95 ae95r corolla 4wd 4x4 lift kit lifted raise clearance.

Quoted from akpv

Will probably part it out when rego expires.

I may be interested in some parts;  yes, I live in the U.S., but some parts are just hard to find around here.  If only there was a Sprinter/Carib parts store online.  

Will post up here if it goes ahead.  Anything in particular you are after?

Yeah really interested to hear how you go... I knew you were in Canberra...wasn't sure if NSW law affected you or not..

Could you explain to us a little bit more how you went about about your research for upping the sizes of springs & what led you to choosing the ford ones etc...?
As far as I know you're the only person who's attempted it...my thinking is along the same lines as yours regarding wheels n tyres

Cheers

I read somewhere on the net you could use springs from a falcon and magna, I have never been able to find the post since.  I have an old paper copy of the king springs catalog with specs of all of the springs so i just found a car with the same diameters and slightly longer springs.  Both cars are a little heavier then the ae95 so it will be interesting to see if the ride is too firm or not.  I now have both sets of springs, just need the time to do it.  

How does one go about changing a spring on a live axle car? Shocks off, jack it up and away you go?  I have only ever done macpherson type changes.

Ok i think I remember the thread you're refering to & from what I can recall the ford springs didn't quite fit I'll see if I can find it, coz I might've book marked it but don't have time tonight.

Regarding the springs, I think you need some kind of compression set-up...

I asked my old man & he said making a spring compressor is pretty straight forward. He's got a welding engineering back ground.

I'll see if I can get him to do a sketch...

But I never thought of what you said about removing the shocks - might be possible.

It'd be worth searching some other forums...

Yeah i have spring compressors, i don't reckon i will need them for the rear looking at it though.  Will def need them for the front.

Hey akpv, 'Sorry half off topic' I fitted those headers on the weekend - real tough fit. Wasn't so bad taking them out coz the wrecked car didn't have any radiator or air con, so the entire front of the car was pretty clear.

Looks like the guy who originally installed them in the wreck I took them from, couldn't get them to fit & cut them in 2 places, fitted them & then did some real shonky welding. Long story short my new headers leak out the crappy welds! Still my old cast iron manifold was nearly cracked in two.

The original comes in two pieces but the headers are one long piece. In the end I had to take my radiator out, remove the oil filter, disconnect an oil hose running off the front of the engine block & grind a tiny notch in the sub-frame just to squeeze it in.

I'll post some photo's. When I have more time. I'll have to pull them out again soon, re-do the welds & make a new bolted join so they're an easy 2 piece fit.

In the mean time: 'back on topic'

I found a thread talking about ford springs in the AE95. As I remembered. He says the diameters not quite right but the rest of the thread may be helpful.
Here 'tis:
                         http://www.rollaclub.com/board/?showtopic=14838

The guy called "ogre6br" makes some interesting comments at the end of this thread about ordering through king springs over here in Australia.

I've also posted a similar request regarding suspension lift in twincam & toymods, so I'll report back if I find anything interesting. ::)

I wonder if spacers (like thick washers) dan be used to put distance between the shock and the mount.

Quoted from akpv

I am in the process of doing this.  My plans are:

Front Gen 1 Magna Springs
Rear EL Falcon Springs
14" Wheels

Should add up to 50-60mm of lift without changing the shocks.  Any more then that and it will start getting expensive pretty quick, I don't have the money at the moment, saving up for a new engine for the subi.  I will take before and after shots as well as measurements as I go.  The Magna springs should be here Monday.

I am in the process of getting new struts for the All-Trac; I'm still researching what is available.  But at 207K miles and counting, my springs probably need replacing as well, since I still bottom out occasionally, although there is not much shimmy.  And while my oil pan shows no dings in it, the front crossmember does show some banging.  

I'll look into these springs, as well as a spring compressor -- I'm told to get the good kind.

Check out this clever guy:

http://www.rollaclub.com/board/index.php?showtopic=34863[url][/url]

Good to see some one is pioneering some new ground.

This guy's inspiring.

Yes.  Now I need to get some welding skills.

Wow, what a thread, all the answers....just time, skill and a scrap yard job are missing now...

Yeah, I should contact the guy & see what he says about an engineer's certificate

A mechanic was showing off his Toyota Tercel sedan that he put 15 inch rims on to me (not even low profile tires).    The increased ground clearance was almost shocking.  I wish I could remember exactly what he said he did with the shocks to fit those monsters in.  Him and I couldn't see that the All-trac would be any different.  For amusement we put 16 inch rims on my All-trac.  If it weren't for the bolts being to short, they might actually work with very thin tires.
He seemed to think that going with 14 inch rims is pointless when you can get 15's in!  I agree with other posters, that the best way to increase ground clearance is to use bigger tires.  

A trip to the auto wrecker to find some rims may be in order.  I know he would delight in getting them to work for me.

The only problem with bigger tires is maintaining the same total rolling circumference. Meaning the tire has to turn the same # of times as the old tires, because that is what you're speedometer is set for. Otherwise you're going to have drastically different speedo and odometer readings.

Another thing: Heavier wheels are harder for your engine to turn, producing a lot more load on the car.

Oh one more: Your steering rack's torque gears are designed to move only a certain amount of rubber on the ground.

I had 15's on with the same rolling circumference as my 13's (they were low profile), and I noticed a difference in steering, braking, and the lack of torque in the low gears when accelerating.

So yeah you can gain an inch or two, but at what cost? Thats my opinion. I'm running 13" winter tires right now, and when summer comes around I intend on getting 14's (NO BIGGER FOR ME AGAIN).

I'm considering getting a nice set of 15s for my del Sol, and then putting the del Sol's 14" rims on my wagon.  Same bolt pattern, I'm only unsure of the offset.  I know the del Sol's rims fit on the wagon as I've already test-fit them... just haven't test-driven the del Sol rims on the wagon.

Mate my car is lowered bout 4 inches and it sits on 15's could go 16's if i wanted and still would have room

it has kyb shock's and kings all round

and btw you could just get kings or another company to make some custom springs to any hight

then find out what shocks you want to fit

Why not just get air shocks?

Quoted from BAM

Why not just get air shocks?

coz it's a lot of work

Yeah I was looking at the canisters in the back seat and all the air lines around Kebin's vehicle. A lot of work and it consumes a LOT of space!

I think some of it could be mounted on the outside if it was powder coated and the ride level was raised 4-8 inches! =D I'll know in a couple years when I can afford to find out!

the only wasted space my setup takes is the rear passenger foot wells. But anyway who carries passengers in the back? my seats are folded down all the time thus creating the Toyota shagging wagon! ;)

Quoted from ae95 wagon kid

Mate my car is lowered bout 4 inches

Pics!!!

Quoted from dylangumby

Another thing: Heavier wheels are harder for your engine to turn, producing a lot more load on the car.

Oh one more: Your steering rack's torque gears are designed to move only a certain amount of rubber on the ground.

So yeah you can gain an inch or two, but at what cost? Thats my opinion.

See.. that's why you need more powerful engine  LOL  ;D

I've picked up some rear air shocks that have a little car valve to raise and lower them. Will have to wait till I get back to install them though. Like you Jez - I want to exploit the functionality so I can still go down dirt tracks and through the snow. thinner tyres seem better on snow and ice as well. I've often got people in the back of my car and these shocks only cost about $60.00 NOS on ebay.

Are they the poly - air ones that fit inside the coil springs???

http://www.mad-tooling.com/wm.cgi?lng=EN&main=3&id=81

Could you take some installation pic's DownUnder?

I'm sure everyone would be interested to see how you go & what sort of results are achievable...

They're in storage right now so I can't get to them - bought them for the Tercel but I read somewhere that they will fit. I think they are poly air - they are made by monroe, look like normal shocks but with lines that come out of them and then a standard car valve on the end that you can attach inside- not like the ones that you sent. I actually had similar ones on my old Kingswood wagon - but they were always busted. I'll give you a yell when I come back from Japan and you can suss them out. good luck with your mods and engine. got to drive the rolla back to Adelaide tomorrow. long day!

safe travels dude & rip it up in Japan  8)

Quoted from dylangumby

The only problem with bigger tires is maintaining the same total rolling circumference. Meaning the tire has to turn the same # of times as the old tires, because that is what you're speedometer is set for. Otherwise you're going to have drastically different speedo and odometer readings.

Another thing: Heavier wheels are harder for your engine to turn, producing a lot more load on the car.

Oh one more: Your steering rack's torque gears are designed to move only a certain amount of rubber on the ground.

I had 15's on with the same rolling circumference as my 13's (they were low profile), and I noticed a difference in steering, braking, and the lack of torque in the low gears when accelerating.

A possible solution is to get lighter rims to compensate for the heavier tire.  I never got around to moving up to 14" but now I am considering it.
I just have to find 14" rims that are relatively light weight but still strong. Time to hit Craigslist.

Quoted from datsa

A possible solution is to get lighter rims to compensate for the heavier tire.  I never got around to moving up to 14" but now I am considering it.
I just have to find 14" rims that are relatively light weight but still strong. Time to hit Craigslist.

I'd consider Honda del Sol "fat fives," they're supposed to be pretty light.  Also 4x100 or whatever it is our wagons are for the lug pattern.  Unfortunately they have a plastic center cap with an aluminum face (with a Honda "H") which can get bent up easily from removal (it covers all the lugs).  When I get some 15" rims for my del Sol, I'm giving my wagon the fat fives.

Funny thing is right now, I have almost the closest / most exact tire size on the 14" rims to go on the wagon for the speedometer.  The 14s are supposed to have 185s, but for some reason last time I bought tires I bought 195s.

I had mine powdercoated black at my job, but they're typically silver / mill in color, like this:

Also, keep in mind that 4x100 14" wheels are also very common on the mk3 VW's. The VR6 models are 5x100 though, so keep that in mind.  Might make it a little easier to find wheels. Most Civic models are also 4x100. there's probably 10-15 sets of 4x100 honda steelies withing spitting distance for under $100.

I would imagine that the offset would be the same on the Honda wheels. 4x100 is primarily a FWD bolt pattern, the offset is usually around 30-35. The Fox body Mustangs had a 4x108 (I think) bolt pattern, but I'm not sure of the offset on them. 4x100->4x108 is a pretty popular adapter size, especially among the Euro crowd. However, I'm pretty sure the minimum size was 15", and WAY wider on the Mustang wheels. Just throwing some options out there.

I think that it probably wouldn't be too difficult (or expensive) to get a local machine shop to fab up some spacer mounts like in the first post. And you might even be able to find some that are compatible, if there are any vehicles with a similar suspension setup.

I was talking to a suspension specialist on the phone & he said another thing to consider with upping the tyre size is your changing the diff ratio because a larger wheel has a larger surface area to cover therefore it won't complete a full revolution in the time a standard(smaller) wheel would.

This could be good for slow crawls up hill but crap for taking off at the lights because it's also more loading on the power capacity of the engine even though the distance covered remains the same.

So that means a loss of acceleration power.
However depending on just how much bigger your wheels are, this loss in power could be compensated for by making other mod's that improve the engine's power output.

My plan is to almost double the output of the 4afe by using a 4agze with the use of a sc14 supercharger which is bigger than the standard sc12 supercharger found on the 4agze. I'll also incorporate a switch to disengage it altogether so the engine will run naturally aspirated whenever it suits.

A lot of work to go - I'm taking the wagon in at the end of this month to the suspension specialist to talk engineering about what can & can't be done & also at what price.. Would love to do the work myself, but there's a lot to consider re: cambers & so on. You change one thing & it changes many other things, I just don't have the knowledge skills or time to achieve everything I have in mind.

In the mean time for anyone interested in learning how to calculate there differential ratio, check this clip out.

The bigger the wheel size the less revolutions it does compared to the drive shaft:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_Enyf67KTs

Absolutely true, you can also check out http://www.1010tires.com/tiresizecalculator.asp

Yeah, rolling radius.  That's what I was referring to when I said in my earlier post that my del Sol rims currently have the "wrong" size tire for that car, but when I eventually put those rims on the wagon, they'll be almost an exact replacement for the same rolling radius as the stock 13" rims with stock tire size.

Jedz, that engine setup reminds me of Mad Max  ;)

Well, I've just put the del Sol "fat five" rims on my wagon, and took it for a spin last night.  I could tell the difference between the two; the smaller rims gave me a little more torque/power compared to the 15" rims.

Now I just need to get some Toyota logos for the center caps to cover up the Honda H logos  ;D

Quoted from SirRipo

Jedz, that engine setup reminds me of Mad Max  ;)

I grew up on that film... there's a few places in the first film that were shot around places I know around western Victoria .....  cool stuff.

I saw the head of centre line suspension today,

http://www.centrelinesuspension.com.au/


Was great to walk into a shop like that & the guy gave a lot of his time for free (I did have to wait a while though)
There was some old classic tank of a thing kinda reminiscent of a cadillac, a nice old mustang, some type of formula racing car from the 60's, a race spec GT Falcon & a few boy racer cars..

In short, raising an AE95 is a lot more complex than I'd expected if it's to be done in a robust proffessional way... but I learned a lot..

We're talking in the ball park of 4 grand Australian - to do a really good set up plus added costs with fine tuning & road tests
.........a lot more coin than I had in mind

There are short cuts but all of them would decrease the life span of all the steering & suspension gear  "... bad..."

I could buy so much more with that kind of coin...  I'm gonna keep researching, probably visit a few more suspension places until I get a solid idea of what's a reasonable compromise between what I'd really like to achieve & what it will cost.

Hi Jed,

I think the most you could get out of our cars is about 3" of lift without decreasing the life span of your CV's and tierod ends etc. this would be half by suspension lift and half by larger diameter tyres

Some of the guys on Tercel4wd.com use our alltrac struts in the front of there cars. I believe that early model Camry struts on the front from a wreckers would make our cars stiffer and more responsive and raise the height 1.5" for the rear - guys on the forum have been using cut down jeep and pathfinder springs. Other slightly backyard ideas for the front are strut spacers made from cutting boards. Or you could perhaps lower the subframe and space the body like what Subaextreme do to Subaru Foresters. This give you ability to put larger diameter tyres

With your extra power and some small suspension mods not to upset the geometry to much and larger wheel/tyre combo you will easily give yourself a few extra inches lift. I think the first gear in our cars is lower than other corollas. I am not sure if you would be able to change the diffs for something else. An AE86 limited slip might be a consideration for the rear though if the ratio matches.

Anyway here are a couple of links for what the guys in the North west of the states are capable of with there Tercel 4wds http://www.tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4934&p=47575#p47575 and http://www.tercel4wd.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5210&start=0&hilit=barto+lift. Anyway mate, just some food for thought. I think we should go look at some parts in a junkyard when I get back.. Cheers mate

I got to thinking the other day, specifically about tires. I know this might deserve it's own thread, and if so, I'll create one, but are there any aggressive-tread/off-road tires that might come in a size that would fit our cars? Like a 14 inch off road tire? I've done a little research, mostly through tire rack, as I have no idea what kind of size would be needed. I found a thread over at TheSamba (LINK) that indicates there is at least one tire in 195/75R14, but I don't know what kind of wheels one would have to run in order to use those tires, or even if they would fit under our cars. Maybe there's something designed for the Baja Beetles that could work? Just figured this should go here, since the whole ground clearance thing goes along with better off-road tires. Perhaps someone more educated in this could shed some light?

Got quoted 4thousand dollars to acheive the suspension raise I'm looking for.... More than I'd imagine... will keep looking around / exploring options...

i have a fair lift on my corolla 4wd, i have used rear range rover classic springs which give about 4 inches of lift and fit right in, with + 2 inch dauhatsu sportrak shocks with home made extenders,  removed the both anti roll bars which you have to do.  front im in the process of doing now but iv heard camry springs fit? and tyres im using 15 inch vauxhal alloys with 195 r 15 all terrian tyres.

Quoted from schoolboyerrors

i have a fair lift on my corolla 4wd, i have used rear range rover classic springs which give about 4 inches of lift and fit right in, with + 2 inch dauhatsu sportrak shocks with home made extenders,  removed the both anti roll bars which you have to do.  front im in the process of doing now but iv heard camry springs fit? and tyres im using 15 inch vauxhal alloys with 195 r 15 all terrian tyres.

Where are you located? Australia, NZ, or the UK?  
Are there differences between Range Rover classic springs for the Australian market versus North American market?
I've been trying to find information about raising my A-T at least 2" but there are so many issues on this mod.  Larger diameter tires are not enough for my purposes.

im in the uk, and im not sure, there the same springs fitted to the pre 300tdi land rover discoverys and defender 90's.  i would imagine there the same spring fitted across the globe, exluding the police spec land rovers that are fitted with heavy duty springs. the sets iv used have all be second hand as i found they fit purely by accident! i would imagine new springs would be to hard and wouldnt work right as there designed for 2 tonne not 1! so you would be better buying a good second hand pair than a new set.
what issues have you come across when lifting yours?

On the Tercel4wd.com/forums some guys were using cut down Jeep springs in the rear of their Tercels. All-trac has the same rear end - if you go to the Tercel.4wd.com/forums and do a search there is a lot of info on replacement shocks. Guys are trying camry and all-trac struts on the front end as well.

Also, doesn't the front end use the anti roll bars to hold the struts in place? be really careful what your doing there.

School boy - Any pic's you have of this, with a some breif descripotions breaking down what you did would be very helpful and I'm sure everyone here at alltracwagon would appreciate it.

Quoted from schoolboyerrors

i have a fair lift on my corolla 4wd, i have used rear range rover classic springs which give about 4 inches of lift and fit right in, with + 2 inch dauhatsu sportrak shocks with home made extenders,  removed the both anti roll bars which you have to do.  front im in the process of doing now but iv heard camry springs fit? and tyres im using 15 inch vauxhal alloys with 195 r 15 all terrian tyres.